SSRI's and the Martin Pall Protocol
Discussion started by CaptainInsano , on Thursday, 23 February 2012 15:40
Hi all, im currently working my way through palls book - due to my general intolerance of b vitamins treating my methyaltion issues have proved difficult
After people here speaking of DHEA and antipshychotics helping them with MCS Im am looking in to supplements /drugs that calm the nervous system/ lower MNDA activity/ and NO . Amongst others things that are on my to try list, pall suggests that some SSRI drugs can help lower NO synthesis and MCS;
- paroxitine minocycline and citalopram -
anyone tried these?
Replies
Maff,
Benzos are a complicated and often seemingly contradictory area when it comes to CFS and MCS Christos. Both illnesses are widely seen as involving overactivation of the central nervous system - "hyperarousal". Therefore benzos being tranquilisers make perfect sense. They are recommended more for CFS than MCS because obviously many MCS sufferers cannot tolerate medications at all.
My personal experience is that when I was suffering acutely from MCS if I took a fast acting benzo after an exposure to a chemical trigger it significantly reduced symptoms. I would of course never play down the proven potential for dependency with these drugs but I have to say I have used them a lot both as described above and for long periods to help with sleep and anxiety associated with CFS...but I can stop them dead without any ill effects. Start them up again and they have the same effect at the same dose.
Can't forget we're in the Martin Pall Protocol group here so how does all this fit in? I'm not sure what Pall's stance is on benzos but based on the crux of his theory (excessive NMDA activation) they would seem to be a perfect fit since they enhance GABA neurotransmission - where GABA is directly antagnonistic to NMDA activation. NMDA receptors when stimulated cause increased neural activity while GABA receptors (generally) reduce it. The adrenal hormone DHEA is also known to enhance GABA activity and this played a huge part in my recovery from MCS.
Thoughts guys?
My personal experience is that when I was suffering acutely from MCS if I took a fast acting benzo after an exposure to a chemical trigger it significantly reduced symptoms. I would of course never play down the proven potential for dependency with these drugs but I have to say I have used them a lot both as described above and for long periods to help with sleep and anxiety associated with CFS...but I can stop them dead without any ill effects. Start them up again and they have the same effect at the same dose.
Can't forget we're in the Martin Pall Protocol group here so how does all this fit in? I'm not sure what Pall's stance is on benzos but based on the crux of his theory (excessive NMDA activation) they would seem to be a perfect fit since they enhance GABA neurotransmission - where GABA is directly antagnonistic to NMDA activation. NMDA receptors when stimulated cause increased neural activity while GABA receptors (generally) reduce it. The adrenal hormone DHEA is also known to enhance GABA activity and this played a huge part in my recovery from MCS.
Thoughts guys?
454 days ago
I tried all manner of SSRI's in the first few years after my collapse with CFS and chemical poisoning and another nervous breakdown in 2000. I couldn't tolerate them at all however as I became unable to cope and was clinically depressed and suicidal I was put on Serapax which at that point I felt was the only option left for me even though I knew about the physical dependency issues that accompany Benzo's.I have to say this medication gradually gave me my life back. I only take very small doses and it seems to calm my CNS and the raging tinnitus I experience.
I wouldn't advocate taking benzos though as I am now attempting to withdraw from them and it feels extremely difficult as the physical dependence symptoms are horrendous. So maybe I will stay on the low dose I am currently taking rather than put myself through hell again.
At this point in time I am also beginning to use the Dynamic Neural Retraining Program http://www.dnrsystem.com/ which is giving people their lives back again.
I enjoy your newsletters Maff and all the info that I know you have put so much time and energy into producing.
Be as well as you can be.
Glenda B.
I wouldn't advocate taking benzos though as I am now attempting to withdraw from them and it feels extremely difficult as the physical dependence symptoms are horrendous. So maybe I will stay on the low dose I am currently taking rather than put myself through hell again.
At this point in time I am also beginning to use the Dynamic Neural Retraining Program http://www.dnrsystem.com/ which is giving people their lives back again.
I enjoy your newsletters Maff and all the info that I know you have put so much time and energy into producing.
Be as well as you can be.
Glenda B.
455 days ago
Maff,
I also have major problems treating my methylation issues as all testing (including genomic - MTHFR etc) points to my need for methyl forms of folate, B12 and use of other methyl donors...but they all upset my digestive system too much. I've used methyl-B12 injections but it's 5-MTHF that I really need to be taking...
Anyway, regarding SSRIs and the Pall Protocol I would say that if you respond to such drugs then it is likely they will reduce NMDA activity and the NO cycle as Pall suggests and aid recovery from MCS. Problem is you'd need a diagnosis of depression/anxiety in many cases to get these medications (although that may not be too hard if your doctor doesn't believe in MCS!)...also not everyone responds to SSRIs, at least in terms of depressive symptoms, so does this mean SSRIs would only lower NMDA activity etc in a subset of MCSers?
From my personal experience I was on both paroxetine and citalopram for a good few months each and noticed absolutely no change in symptoms, positive or negative, from either. DHEA on the other hand had a massive impact on all symptoms and seemed to clearly be the final piece in the puzzle in my recovery from MCS.
Anyway, regarding SSRIs and the Pall Protocol I would say that if you respond to such drugs then it is likely they will reduce NMDA activity and the NO cycle as Pall suggests and aid recovery from MCS. Problem is you'd need a diagnosis of depression/anxiety in many cases to get these medications (although that may not be too hard if your doctor doesn't believe in MCS!)...also not everyone responds to SSRIs, at least in terms of depressive symptoms, so does this mean SSRIs would only lower NMDA activity etc in a subset of MCSers?
From my personal experience I was on both paroxetine and citalopram for a good few months each and noticed absolutely no change in symptoms, positive or negative, from either. DHEA on the other hand had a massive impact on all symptoms and seemed to clearly be the final piece in the puzzle in my recovery from MCS.
456 days ago
