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TOPIC: How to restore gut flora

Re:How to restore gut flora 9 years 2 months ago #13

  • Maff
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Hi guys,

Dechen - that's not necessarily the case as factors such as the food we eat, our stress levels and immune status all influence the make-up of our gut flora - as you now know having been successfully treated at SCNM ;)

Sammy - Really interesting that you have had Human Probiotic Infusions. Both Dechen and myself have looked into this and I am especially keen to try this procedure as I am unable to tolerate traditional antimicrobial and probiotic treatment for my CFS-related fungal and bacterial gut dysbiosis. Could you give us information on where you had this procedure, the doctor(s) that perfromed it and what it entailed - I'd really appreciate it. All I have been able to find so far are vague media references to a handful of gastroenterologists who use this procedure for patients with C. difficile infection. They wouldn't take me seriously if I said I had a gut full of yeast and various bacteria that was making me sick.

It's actually not so strange that antibiotics are helping your symptoms. They are often the cause of the problems in the first place but are also sometimes required to correct things - you just need to make sure the bad bacteria are replaced by the good guys. I agree it's a bit hit and miss with probiotics in general at present as it's still a relatively new area of study and a very complex subject. It's clear the composition of our gut flora has a major influence over our health but how best to fix things when they go wrong is still far from clear. There are more micoorganisms in our guts than there are cells in our entire bodies so it's going to take time to figure out!

Good luck with the VSL#3 though - it's certainly one of the best products currently available. Let us know how you get on and please do give us more details on the Human Probiotic Infusions. Thanks!
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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Re:How to restore gut flora 9 years 2 months ago #14

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Sure Maff will do anything to try an help

My Human Probiotic Infusion/s were done at The Center For Digestive Diseases by Proffesor Borody's staff at Five Dock NSW and of course in Australia

The person in the blue shirt with red and blue tie and glass'es on the right hand middle of there home page is Professor Borody:

www.cdd.com.au/

They give you two weeks of antibiotics, mine were Flagyl and another i can seem to remember, however they prefered to use Vancomycin but the chemist back then was out of stock.

They insert a gastro feeding tube up through your nose and down into your small intestine(then the X-Ray to make sure it is placed correctly), then for one week each morning via some sort of enema device, force ane infusion up into your colon and of course they also plug into the feeding tube and force the same solution.

Cost's from memory were $2000.

I will come back to this and add more info soon, i am at an i-net cafe and i am almost out of money :)
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Re:How to restore gut flora 9 years 2 months ago #15

  • Maff
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Thanks for your reply and offer of help Sammy :)

I have run this website for years, studied the subject to degree level, seen countless doctors and experimented myself but I am still stuck in a catch-22 with my gut dysbiosis as it is the crux of my problems but I can't treat it in the conventional way so am willing to try anything at this point.

Ironically when I first came across the concept of Human Probiotic Infusions around 10 years ago I believe it was Professor Borody's work I was reading about!

In my case I have both rampant bacterial and fungal growth in my small intestine so would need both antibiotics and antifungals prior to the probiotic replacement.

Thanks for the information you've given so far. I have some specific questions I hope you don't mind answering:

1. Did you have general anaesthetic while the feeding tube was inserted or can this been done when you're conscious? High risk for return of MCS and other side-effects with anaesthetic for me!

2. Who was the donor for your infusion? From my research it seems to be that a close relative (preferably young is usually used - which makes sense re: similar gut flora composition). The problem here is that both my mother and only sister also have unhealthy flora...

3. How did you come to have the treatment? Were you referred by another doctor or did you approach Professor Borody yourself?

4. Is that 2000 Australian Dollars? Whether Australian or American it is less than I expected - although plane tickets to Australia don't come cheap!

Finally, you mentioned the procedure didn't help you. Did it not help at all or did you notice improvement but relapse later? If I went through with this I appreciate I'd have to make sure supportive therapy was in place (e.g. appropriate immunotherapy and gut health support) to ensure things \"stuck\"!

Thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated :)
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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Re:How to restore gut flora 9 years 2 months ago #16

  • Dechen
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Maff & Sammy,

Do the doctors at this clinic, Dr Borody and all, first determine through lab tests and various evaluation the status of the gut flora, and all the possible fauna in there?

I mean, before getting a procedure, it seems to me that it must be established what is the problem, and if a fecal transplant is the appropriate procedure.

Otherwise, that is maybe why it doesn't work.

Also Maff, how did you establish that you have bacterial and fungal overgrowth in your small intestine? I know we have talked about it before, but I was so very ill, my memory is not so clear.

What you are doing, is suffering endlessly, just without a proper diagnosis, trying to self-treat.

But if you knew that you'd get better in less than 6 months somewhere, wouldn't you rush there? Remember, I was much much sicker than you are now (maybe you were sicker than me before, but last year, I got the palm for deteriorated patient of the year).

Tell me this: if you knew a place could make you better in less than six months, what would you do?
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Re:How to restore gut flora 9 years 2 months ago #17

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Hi guys,

Dechen, I would assume Professor Borody and his team do lab testing and investigations to establish the most appropriate antimicrobial agents to use prior to commencing the treatment - but we'll have to wait for Sammy to confirm this.

It has had remarkable success rates in recurrant C. diff infection (95%+) when antibiotics alone have failed. It is therefore clearly very effective for certain infections and when you know what you are dealing with.

My fungal and bacterial overgrowth was diagnosed by a host of MDs practicing environmental/nutritional/funcitonal & integrative medicine as well as Professor Keith Eaton who has passed away now but was a renowned environmental medicine pioneer and was a Consultant Allergist at Princess Margaret Hospital, Windsor, London, when I saw him. He successfully managed to straddle conventional and environmental medicine.

The concurring diagnoses by these doctors was made using my history (CFS - therefore GI immune impairment against fungi and bacteria), symptoms, and a variety of functional tests including hydrogen breath test for small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO), gut fermentation profile (developed by BioLab UK) to detect both products of bacterial and fungal fermentation, CDSA which showed severe lack of Lactoballus sp. and beneficial E.coli along with elevated levels of Candida and various bacteria e.g. Klebsiella oxytoca, Proteus sp. etc. Another stool culture at a Mexican clinic revealed the same. I also had various liver function and toxic exposure profiles demonstrating that my liver was being chronically exposed to ethanol - it wasn't coming from alcoholic beverages as I hadn't drunk in years so combined with the other results the most likely explanation for that is intestinal yeast (Candida) overgrowth.

Unfortunately I let things get so out of hand during my teens by doing everything I should't that even with a clear idea of the problems I have been unable to tolerate treatment offered by any doctor or clinic so far.

I'm not sure why you think I don't have a clear diagnosis - I have a clear diagnosis of chronic fatigue syndrome, fungal and bacterial gut dysbiosis, increased intestinal permeability, and adrenal fatigue to mention a few. All based on repeated lab testing, doctors' diagnoses and my own opinion given years of research for the website and the past 3 years studying all of this at degree lvel at University.

I tried all the doctors and clinics first before self-treating and I have to say I have made much more progress by myself without the huge bills! I am not suffering needlessly however as every moment of illness teaches you something about yourself and the illnesses you are suffering from. I aim to help many people in the future beyond what I have already done with this site so I need to have experienced the true depths to which these illnesses can take you to be able to relate to future clients/patients ;)

I have also not been suffering needlessly as I am researching and learning all the time. This way I am putting myself in a better position to choose the best doctor(s) and or clinic(s) where I will actually get results. I am done throwing money at doctors and others who quite frankly - I know more than!

I don't think it is wise to get into discussions of who is sicker than whom as everyone who visits this site believes they are sicker than everyone else so it can only lead to hostility ;)

If I knew for certain a place could get me well in 6 months then I would be there in a flash no matter what the cost but unfortunately there are never any guarantees. I am delighted that you have improved so much in such a short space of time but whether that would be the case for me is still a huge question mark.

SCNM is certainly high on my list though and I'll reply to your other post about it as we're getting off topic here!

Sorry Sammy, please do let us know more about your experience with Professor Borody. Thanks ;)
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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Re:How to restore gut flora 9 years 1 month ago #18

  • Sammy
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Maff wrote:
Thanks for your reply and offer of help Sammy :)

I have run this website for years, studied the subject to degree level, seen countless doctors and experimented myself but I am still stuck in a catch-22 with my gut dysbiosis as it is the crux of my problems but I can't treat it in the conventional way so am willing to try anything at this point.

Ironically when I first came across the concept of Human Probiotic Infusions around 10 years ago I believe it was Professor Borody's work I was reading about!

In my case I have both rampant bacterial and fungal growth in my small intestine so would need both antibiotics and antifungals prior to the probiotic replacement.

Thanks for the information you've given so far. I have some specific questions I hope you don't mind answering:

1. Did you have general anaesthetic while the feeding tube was inserted or can this been done when you're conscious? High risk for return of MCS and other side-effects with anaesthetic for me!

2. Who was the donor for your infusion? From my research it seems to be that a close relative (preferably young is usually used - which makes sense re: similar gut flora composition). The problem here is that both my mother and only sister also have unhealthy flora...

3. How did you come to have the treatment? Were you referred by another doctor or did you approach Professor Borody yourself?

4. Is that 2000 Australian Dollars? Whether Australian or American it is less than I expected - although plane tickets to Australia don't come cheap!

Finally, you mentioned the procedure didn't help you. Did it not help at all or did you notice improvement but relapse later? If I went through with this I appreciate I'd have to make sure supportive therapy was in place (e.g. appropriate immunotherapy and gut health support) to ensure things \"stuck\"!

Thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated :)

Hey Maff

1) general anaesthetic - yes. As i forgot to mention had to fast the previous day as before they placed the feeding tube they performed an endoscopy examination. You would probably have to speak to there staff and see if there are any other options regarding the anaesthetic, also regarding the use of an anti-fungal, as that was not mentioned at all at the time.

2) they use a donor bank - highly tested they informed me

3) Dr. Joachim Fluhrer refered me to Professor Borody

4) AUD's - Although dont quote me as prices, may have changed, as mine was done about 5 years ago! Yeah can only imagine the price on air fairs :dry:

5) No real help at all, slight improvment regarding GI bloating.

Was on HSO's for 3 months before procedure was done and Mutaflor for 3 months post procedure

Had a consult couple months ago with Proffesor Borody, and all he could recomend was more Rifaximin or more combo treatment with Flagyl and Vancomycin. Or Bismuth(which i did try to no avail)Interestingly he told me to try VSL#3.
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