Hey everyone, I guess everybody is interested in liver health, since we all have some levels of toxicity somehow. These days, since I took the chemicals against crypto, liver has not been that happy.

Anyways, doctors at my clinic told me yesterday that only 10% of the bile passes into the small intestines to be excreted. The rest, 90% of the bile, is recycled and recirculated - and with it, all the toxins that it contains.

They explained that bile takes a lot of energy to produce, hence the body tries to conserve most of it. But in cases of high toxicity (of various origins, like me) this is counterproductive, 'cause toxins should leave the body.

This is why they had wanted me to do colonics - apparently they help the liver dump the bile into intestines... Colonics cause the gallbladder to empty out into the small intestine.

Hating colonics (and my recent experience with one), I objected that coffee enemas can do the same - stimulate gallbladder and bile flow.

But then I thought, what I need - what we may all need, is a cholegogic herb - a herb that helps evacuate bile into the intestines.

The previous herbs/supplements from Dr Rona, don't seem to contain such herbs. Would any liver experts here know?

In my experience you have a few options.

Bile salts or ox-bile might give you the most effective short term improvement. Although it's always worth considering the longer term objective of getting your body to produce it's own, for which things like lecithin, good fiber intake and digestive bitters might be useful. When bitters hit your tongue they stimulate the vagus nerve, which kicks up stomach acid, bile and pancreatic enzymes, hence why they are sold as digestive bitters. I believe dandelion works on bile formation but is probably on the weaker side.

The componants of lecithin that work the bile can also be bought seperately, Phosphatidyl Choline and Phosphatidyl Inositol, and as a result will be a much more concentrated dose.

As the bile is produced in the liver supporting this directly with things like milk thistle, turmeric and the digestive bitters might also help, as will supporting digestion if it's compromised either directly with enzymes and HCL and/or the building blocks, B vitamins, zinc and boosting the flora.

Then there are all the other liver support nutrients- NAC, glutathione, SAMe, antioxidants, artichoke, pantethine, tribulus, TMG, alpha lipoic acid etc which by looking at your other posts you are be familiar with. I wouldn't go too overboard with these yet, rather focus on working the bile.

Are your stools pale or malformed in any way? indicating a lack of bile?

Gotta love the stool talk!....<br /><br />Post edited by: konnor, at: 2010/03/07 04:53

Ahh... Another chance to blab on about my favorite liver supplement PPC (polyenylphosphatidylcholine)!

The scientific data on PPC (brand names PhosChol and HepatoPro) is simply incredible.

When medical researchers want to damage some poor animals liver, they expose it to carbon tetrachloride... One of the most toxic substances to the liver ever found. After a doctor (C. S. Lieber) discovered how well PPC worked on preventing liver damage from alcohol (if you've got candida you've got alcohol!), they decided to give it the ultimate test and see how well PPC protected the liver against carbon tetrachloride.

The results were amazing...

Abstract
Background/Aims: Polyenylphosphatidylcholine protects against alcoholic cirrhosis in the baboon. This study assesses whether the antifibrotic effect also pertains to a species other than the baboon and to agents other than alcohol.

Methods: Rats were injected with either CC14 (carbon tetrachloride) in peanut oil or peanut oil alone, and pair-fed nutritionally adequate liquid diets, with or without polyenylphosphatidylcholine. Other rats were injected with heterologous albumin instead of CC14. To assess whether polyenylphosphatidyl-choline is active on established fibrosis, rats were also given CC14 for 8 weeks, and then divided into two groups and pair-fed a diet with or without polyenylphosphatidylcholine.

Results: After 8 weeks of CC14, the animals were sacrificed; chromotrope aniline blue and Sirius red stains of liver revealed fibrosis or cirrhosis in animals given CC14 alone, whereas the effect was attenuated in the polyenylphosphatidylcholine-supplemented animals. Hepatic collagen content was decreased by 25 to 32% (p&lt;0.05) and serum ALT and AST were significantly less increased. The expression of liver collagen type I mRNA was significantly increased in CC14 treated rats and was not significantly affected by polyenylphosphatidylcholine although there was a trend towards a lesser increase. Polyenylphosphatidylcholine also attenuated liver fibrosis produced by the injection of heterologous albumin. CC14-induced liver fibrosis regressed more rapidly in polyenylphosphatidylcholine-treated animals than controls, both histologically and by measurement of collagen (p&lt;0.05).

Conclusions: Polyenylphosphatidylcholine (a) attenuates hepatic fibrosis induced by CC14 or human albumin in rats; and (b) accelerates the regression of pre-existing fibrosis.

---------------------------------------------------

There is simply nothing that even comes close to PPC for liver protection, or reversing fibrosis in existing liver disease.<br /><br />Post edited by: bolam56, at: 2010/03/07 08:48

Hi Dechen,

These guys have got it pretty much covered and I wouldn't disagree with any of their recommendations.

You basically need to look out for herbs that act as choleretics (stimulate bile production in the liver) or cholegogues (stimulate the release of bile). Konnor has mentioned many good ones including bitters, dandelion, artichoke, and tribulus. You could also add bupleurum and guduchi to this list - and there are many more if you search for choleretics and cholegogues online.

My personal favourite is tribulus as I seem to get immediate and substantial increases in bile flow with it. My stools change from very pale to a healthy dark brown in a day even at a modest dose. This is accompanied by corresponding reductions in GI pain and irritation so I know it's not just the herb itself changing my stool colour. Tribulus also increases glutathione, is mildly antifungal, and acts as a tonic (improving stress tolerance and well-being), so is perfect for us here. I guess tribulus is my pet supplement....as bolam56 loves his PPC

I'd also wholly recommend PPC though as it really is very potent at protecting the liver and improving function. I researched it years ago and found many studies like the one bolam56 has posted here. It seems to be very protective against alcohol-induced liver toxicity - which as pointed out is important for all of us here with intestinal Candida overgrowth!

I just wanted to add a bit about bile as well. I'm not sure if only 10% is secreted into the duodenum from the gallbladder (seems a little low) but even this isn't all excreted as part of the stool. Much of the bile acids secreted are actually reabsorbed in the intestines and recycled - as like your doctor's have said it takes a lot of energy to produce so needs to be conserved. An additional problem for us with gut dysbiosis is that bile acids can be altered by certain undesirable microbes in the gut and turned into 'secondary bile acids' which are toxic and carcinogenic. So another reason to do all we can to restore healthy gut flora!<br /><br />Post edited by: Maff, at: 2010/03/09 13:27

Thanks guys,

Konnor, you know your liver stuff... Bile salts? I don't think I need more bile, just need it to be flushed in the intestines. Since otherwise, it gets recycled and the toxins are not excreted.

Yeah stools are pretty yellow and not formed - I don't know what that means except the liver is having a hard time.

I am looking more for some cholagogues as Maff mentioned. Last year, when I was on the Tibetan liver medicine, I could feel my liver (and gallbladder) decongesting, and the bile flowing. There was a great feeling of lightness in that area, and I wasn't that nauseated anymore.

What I want then is more flow - an evacuation. I am unwilling though to take things like olive oil lemon juice flush as it is quite brutal. I do eat about two artichokes a week, take a large glass of aloe gel in the morning; still liver needs a good flushing.


I think supplements, etc, would burden it even further because it means more stuff to process. As for tribulus, I know Maff you like it; but I don't need more testosterone or a better sports performance...

But thanks for the tip about bupleurum; I had forgotten. Glutathione I get intraveinously every week; it can't hurt I guess.

No need to worry about testosterone and improved sports performance with tribulus - it might be marketed to athletes and body builders but it doesn't actually raise testosterone according to the research! The only study to show it did so found it only increased testosterone to mid-normal levels in men who were deficient. There's no evidence it raises testosterone above normal levels at all. I certainly don't use it for those purposes, I just used it because it's by far the best cholegogue I've found. Of course what works for one person may not work as well or at all for someone else...as is always the case since we all have individual biochemistry and particular health problems.

Yes, extra supplements will put an added burden on your body....but only if you take the wrong ones at high dosages. The ones the three of us have recommended here should help you detoxify and metabolise other nutrients so the opposite is true. You have to go with what you feel is right though of course...

Good luck