Hi Maff,

Just wondered what your thoughts were on some of the frequently debated points below.

Heal the gut first or clear the Candida?

Opinions seem divided down the middle on this issue. On one hand you have proponents that believe Candida is the/a cause for leaky gut, and therefore needs to be cleared first, on the other they believe that you won't get anywhere without healing the gut first, due to the constant re-absorbtion of toxins.

What I believe is common amongst both is that they are both in part due to a reduction in healthy gut flora, so probiotic treatment is essential in both cases.

Treat Candida with antifungals first, then switch to probiotics? or both at the same time.

I can see the logic behind this but don't see it much of an issue to continue with probiotics. One common warning is that antifungals might destroy any probiotics you take, however this suggests antifungals have an antibiotic effect which I don't believe is true.

Lots of people including myself have had die off from probiotics alone. Do you know the science behind this? Do the good bacteria simply displace some of the Candida and/or is it able to kill the fungas?

Many thanks,

Hi Konnor,

You've raised some very good points here as like you say...there is a lot of confusion.

In answer to your first question. It may be worth taking powerful systemic antifungal drugs such as fluconazole or itraconazole alone to begin with to try to clear a substantial amount of Candida. However, my feeling is that it makes most sense to tackle Candida and other microbial overgrowth (bacteria and parasites commonly become a problem alongside Candida) and gut inflammation/leaky gut syndrome at the same time. You are unlikely to get anywhere only treating one of these issues at a time for the very reasons you mentioned. Candida results in leaky gut syndrome while leaky gut syndrome weakens the immune system and allows Candida to proliferate...it's a vicious cycle. Treating both at the same time is the only way to make progress.

Onto your second question. Whether antifungals destroy probiotics you might be taking depends on the antifungal. Some only kill fungi such as the antifungal drugs (nystation, fluconazole, itraconazole etc) and natural antifungals such as caprylic acid. However, many natural substances used as antifungals are broad spectrum antimicrobials (e.g. oregano oil, grape seed extract) so these may have an effect on probiotic bacteria. If in doubt stick to the straight antifungals. Again I would suggest it is better to take antifungals and probiotics at the same time. The antifungals will kill the Candida which leaves space on the gut wall for other microorganisms to occupy...you want to be taking probiotics so that it's beneficial bacteria that take the place of the Candida.

I also get die-off simply from probiotics. They can kill fungal organisms such as Candida by a variety of mechanisms. Yes, they can simply physically displace the Candida but they also produce a variety of antifungal substances themselves to aid their survival. The aim of every living organism on the planet after all is....survival

Maybe it would be interesting to experiment with this Dragon blood, since it has both antifungal and healing wounds and mucosa properties.

Only drawback to this herb, it can constipate because it has such astringent properties.

This would make candida fight much easier if candida and leaky gut could heal at the same time. But from what I understand also, is that leaky gut will persist even after candida is gone. It takes longer to heal.

The Dragon Blood herb sounds like a good option but not something I'm familiar with. I'll have to do my research!

I'd say from personal experience and studying the subject that the hardest part is getting on top of Candida. The gut (and any other tissue) will actually heal relatively quickly if the factors contributing to inflammation and injury are removed.

Thanks for that.

I'm not sure how confident I am going the perscription antifungal route. Despite being a pretty nice guy and the first to recognise hypoglycemia, I'm not sure how successful I would be pushing for a perscription. I don't think I am in his good books after turning down a GTT.

Now my liver feels marginally better, and once I've recovered from this dam flu I might add some straight antifungals, and alternate daily with probiotics.

I purchased 'Candida Clear' from iherb which has lots of good reviews and what looks like some potent ingredients. I was slightly disillusioned by my experience with L-Glutamine, although I was definately having too much. As such I've not really factored in the leaky gut aside from support nutrients such as pantethine, antioxidents and probiotics. Will look to also purchase a leaky gut formula and have been looking at perma clear, seacure and/or perm-a-vite from nutricology.

I don't suppose you know much about NAG?

It apparently is an amino sugar. Anything with the word sugar in naturally raises from alarm bells. Is this a safe product when Candida and hypoglycemia are issues?

ta,

i have been diagnosed with candida, leaky gut, and what the chinese call dampness. My condition became acute when i became allergic to the pain medication I was on for arthritis. Being that I am allergic to so many drugs I don't know why my GP did not see this coming. In any case no point as the song says to look back in anger. I realize now I am responsible for my own health care.
I am on a yahoo group site which puts emphasis on diet before all else. It is a very brutal diet which you gradually move away in steps from your regular diet, to a very clean diet . It has taken me awhile to get it through my head that no sugar means NO Sugar. I am wondering if the folks on here who are having such severe problems have tried the diet first.
I am also on probiotics,candidase, flora-essence and L-glutamine. I also cook with coconut oil.
I should mention my symptoms, which include, a prickly to burning sensation on my right back side and right thigh above my arthritic knee and my left forearm just above my left wrist. I did not have this pain before pain medication. I have always had a post-nasal drip.
i made it off all pain medications and no longer even take ibuprofen. So nothing for arthritis pain, which is the least of my worries now.
I might add that before I became allergic to the drugs I was on I asked my GP what was causing the pain in my thigh. He first said it was arthritis related then later said he didn't know . I have been drug free almost a year, but I think in some way leaky gut and the toxins pouring into my bloodstream can almost be as bad as withdrawal. COMMENTS? HELP?
Cat