Am I Developing SIBO?

Discussion started by Tracy Mac 6 years ago

There seems to be a lot of people with SIBO here, so being experts I need your opinion.

Until 6 weeks ago I was pretty sure that my dysbiosis was just in the lower colon. Breath tests were clear, allbeit a few years ago. Fecal ecology tests and the encouraging results I had from HPI in April and subsequently in July indicated that my problem was in the lower gut. 

In May I developed a sudden and extreme overproduction of stomach acid. It was very painful, at best like you are starving all the time and at worst like there is a hole burning in your stomach. It is impossible to sleep or work. As I couldn't tolerate proton pump inhibitors I had to take 900mcg of H2 blockers (a very high dose) daily to control it. I could still feel the acid a little, but it was tolerable.

In August after my second HPI failed my gut gave up trying to digest anything. Up until then I had managed to control diarreoh with diet, which meant my diet became more and more limited as the condition worsened but at least I was digesting my food. Now my food comes out looking pretty much the same as when it went in.  Food stays in for only 6-18 hours and often not even the water has absorbed. Sometimes  breakfast comes through after lunch!

Imodium (loperamide) makes no difference.Two days ago I got some Nalcrom (sodium chromoglycate - a mast cell stabiliser for the gut) which settled my gut for a grand 36 hours only to totally dissolve to total liquid again today.Sometimes I have seen my breakfast coming through after lunch!  Sometimes I have seen my breakfast coming through after lunch!    I cou

I took metriodozole prior to my current September HPI thinking 'how much worse can it make me' and hoping to at least reduce the bad bugs prior to HPI. Neither this or the HPI has fixed the digestion problem. Interestingly the metriodozole did fix the stomach acid problem, although it took me a while to register this and cut down the H2 blockers which means I have probably not have had as much stomach acid as I should have.

There doesn't seem much point continuing HPI while my gut is behaving like this. Particularly as I am having no results this time compared to very encouraging results the last two times.

I'm pretty down as I seem to have developed a secondary problem, just when I was finally ready to conquer the first. In fact it could easily be the stress that has caused my gut to dissolve. It's been a hell of a few months.

 Or has the lower gut dysbiosis finally spread to the upper gut - and been aggravated by the declining stomach acid? What is the next step? Breath tests and stomach PH tests? I know you all have been through a lot of this so I would value your views. 

 

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Maff
Maff
Hey all, just wanted to chip in and agree with Tracy on the SIBO/hypochlorhydria issue. If you have low stomach acid and SIBO it is likely that the former is a major contributor to the latter so if it were me I would focus treatment on supplementing Betaine HCl and perhaps something to improve bile flow if this is also an issue. Then hit the SIBO hard with antibiotics (tested to be effective against your particular bugs if possible) and agents that act to breakdown biofilms e.g. Interfase from Klaire Labs.
5 years ago
Tracy Mac
Tracy Mac
Because you will be introducing even more bugs to the upper intestine which is meant to be sterile. If your stomach acid is normal, the growth of new bugs in the upper intestine will be controlled by the stomach acid and the bugs will only end up where they are supposed to be, in the lower intestine. Its just riskier, thats all.
5 years ago
Bushi
Bushi
Hey Tracy, just out of curiosity why if one has low stomach acid will it make things worse if you try HPI??

I have severe SIBO and low stomach acid. I can take 6 or 7 acid tabs with my meals and still get no acidity.

Thanks

Bushi
5 years ago
Tracy Mac
Tracy Mac
Just an update on this post which was 7 months ago. Yes it was SIBO and it took drinking HPI to fix it. Depraved and disgusting I know but I thought I was dying so it didn't seem so bad in comparison.

It has taken 6 months of 'maintenance' HPI, fresh or frozen most days,during which time my PH has remained normal and I have been free of the acidity and streptococcus symptoms that tormented me. I have now been without HPI for 4 weeks without a return of strep symptoms or low PH.

My digestive system has been left in turmoil in other respects and no doubt there's still some mild dysbiois there, but the major bacterial problem is gone. I'm not leaving anything to chance and plan to do HPI monrhly until my other digestive problems resolve.

A Warning to the uninitiated: Do not drink HPI if you have low stomach acid as you could make your SIBO worse. If you have normal stomach acid (which will require a test) or excess stomach acid the risk is lower. See other discussions in this forum for pre-HPI testing protocol and precautions or my blog thepowerofpoo.blogspot.com.au/…]
6 years ago
True
True
just wanted to post this info about SIBO and peppermint in case it might help someone

findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDN/is_5_7/ai_94159011/… treatment of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth with enteric-coated peppermint oil: a case report - Peppermint Oil
6 years ago
Tracy Mac
Tracy Mac
Maff, I've been meaning to tell you that something interesting happened with the candida in the 2 weeks in which I didn't realise the stomach acid had normalised and kept on taking the blockers. I had a candida flare up that did not respond to fluconozole and totally disappeared within 48 hours of going off the blockers. I know you have had your stomach acid tested and it is fine, but it makes me wonder is your variety of candida resistant to stomach acid? Or is your stomach acid quantity ok but quality poor? Does the Heidelberg test just quantity or quality? Or is there just too much candida for your stomach acid to control? I guess these are the jackpot questions...
6 years ago
Maff
Maff
Sorry to hear you're having such a rough time at the moment Tracy. It must be particularly demoralising after the HPIs earlier in the year seemed to be working well for you.

The fast transit time and poor digestion you describe would certainly be factors that could contribute strongly to the development or aggravation of SIBO. I would certainly try a good digestive enzyme complex, bile supplement, and perhaps add a form of fibre supplement you can tolerate (if possible) to slow down your transit time.

I would strongly caution against taking any Betaine HCl supplements since you have had problems with hyperchlorhydria (too much stomach acid). I agree with you that your next step should be to have hydrogen/methane breath tests for SIBO and pH tests to really find out what is going on with your gastric acid production.

Peppermint was a great recommendation from True as it has numerous beneficial effects on both gut function and ecology.
6 years ago
Tracy Mac
Tracy Mac
I've been off gluten for 20 years as it was critical to controlling the condition in its mild stages. I tried whey yesterday only to have it go right thru me within 6 hours with the usual traumatising physical & mental symptoms. Today I'm off to get the digestive enyme/bile. About half of what you've suggested is an option for me so I've written a list and will work through it. Thanks again. I'll report anything positive.
6 years ago
True
True
Hi Tracy,

Im so sorry that you are unable to tolerate much of any food or supplements now. I know how that feels to be in that position; with catch 22's everywhere. I would hope that somehow you might risk trying bile.

How about digestive enzymes or hcl? Any luck with those?

Are you gluten free? All my tests for celiac are negative yet I fare better gluten free.

Another thing thats mentioned a lot for digestion (on cure zone) but one I did not believe until I tried...
going to be early and getting up with the sun..it really does effect digestion positively. Nature really does know best.

my thoughts go out to you during this difficult time.

6 years ago
Tracy Mac
Tracy Mac
Thanks True. My problem these days is that I can't tolerate 90% of supplements or food so take as little as possible. Even when I was relatively well I have always have a bad reaction to the bouvardi but will try the other stuff you suggested. Something up the top end is not producing as it should.
6 years ago
True
True
Just thought of something else I used to use when my digestion got to that point of not digesting anything. Bile capsules--not with meals but inbetween meals can act as an antibacterial, antifungal etc.

I used to have achy joints for years that I believed to be the beginings of arthritis. After a two days of taking bile in between meals these pains became much worse and then suddenly vanished for about a year. When the pains came back I did the bile again and they once again vanished and haven't been back since.
6 years ago
True
True
My digestion was the same as yours a few years back..I could make out all the food I had eaten and had super fast transit.

Test for sibo was negative, decided to give a popular SIBO home remedy a try anyway-enteric coated peppermint oil capsules (they might have also been combo of peppermint and oregano). Took about three to four before bed and a few during the day in between meals. After about a week (maybe two?) my digestion was back on track, however I could not afford to keep taking that large amount of capsules and soon lost sight of my progress because after I quit taking them my digestion was not as bad as before; plus i hated the peppermint cooling effect on my lungs and digestive track. (very odd feeling)

I might add some peppermint to my anti-parasite protocol now that you reminded me of my experience.

Another thing that really (really!) helps with the undigested food symptoms is S.boulardii (beneficial yeast). I could not live without it. I also found that "IBS digestive Advantage" also works well for this. This probiotics dont heal the problem but without them I find myself getting more vitamin deficiencies.

As a side note--The fact that S.boulardii (a good yeast which fights bad yeast) has helped me so much with my digestive symptoms made me believe that all my symptoms were yeast related; however since taking anti-parasite protocol I need less boulardii. Hmm?

HTH
6 years ago

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