Hi Guys & Gals,

Sorry I'm late... Battery on the car is on the way out.

Interesting info on NICO... Never heard of it in dentistry myself but It seems to make sense... Shut off the blood flow and tissues may die. If this does occur, it must be rare... Millions of injections with epi every year. I know we are taught in nursing you must never inject local with epi in fingers or toes due to the possibility of them turning black and falling off, but the problem with surgery on the head is usually too much blood supply.

I had forgotten about gr8tful's racing heart issue the other day... Probably a good idea to avoid the epi if possible. The only issue I can think of is, the tooth/filling site must be absolutely dry for the composite filling material to properly adhere to the tooth! If blood is oozing out of the filling site, you may not get as good a good fix.

Best to ask the doc about this... I'm sure he can do it either way, and given the delicate health status you have, perhaps it is best to do without the epi if at all possible. Still, there is a reason the doc's love this stuff so much... It makes their job easier. Whether they can get a fix without epi equal to one they can get using it is something only your dentist knows.

The heart of the matter may boil down to whether or not cardiac symptoms from dental epi injections ever last longer than 3 to 5 minutes or so. If the dentist says they do not, and he is confident he can get a better fix with the dry (blood free) filling sites epi provides, I would be tempted to try for the best fix and tough out the racing heart for a few minutes, but that's just me. I've had injections with epi many times before, and though the cardiac symptoms are impressive for a minute or so, they always fade quite quickly... For me.

Good Luck, and GodSpeed,
B56

...well, I still think I will stay away from the epi shots.

I called Dr Runar Johnson's office in the state of Washington and spoke with his office personnel. I cannot be sure if I am remembering correctly, but I believe the voice on the phone told me that he only uses non-vasoconstrictors and they work just fine for him and patient. She said the dentist simply injects a little more non-vasoconstrictor every fifteen minutes or so.

Dr. Johnson is also said to be an expert at detecting and cleaning cavitations (NICO). I plan to send him my x-rays for a second opinion (as to whether I have cavitations). Apparently, old cavitations can look just like healthy tissue on an x-ray so a dentist needs special training to see the lesions.

bolam56, you mentioned that NICO must be rare...well, what if it is not all that rare? What if this is, in part, why there is so much sickness among Americans(and persons in other countries where vasoconstrictors are used)?

I heard an online radio show of an interview with a dentist named Dr. Huggins. He contends that pockets of puss, diptheria, bacteria, heavy metals, etc. build up in the cavitation and compromise the immune system.

I don't know. We can hear and read so many things these days with Internet. I wish I had time to dig into the scientific (research) literature. Dr. Huggins said in his interview that he has done that and can (prove?) document his statements.

In my quest to find a non-threatening pain injection, a particular dental assistant suggested that I ask for Carbocaine 3%. She emphasized asking for \"3%.\" She also said be sure it has no preservatives. Apparently, a patient can ask for an injection with no preservative in it. The dentist has to order it though, so dental work has to wait until the product gets there.

I also called www.iaomt.org. The person speaking to me said that Septocaine is a preferred injection because it contains no carcenagens. (Sorry for the mispellings:blush: ) However, when I googled both Carbocaine 3% and Septocaine, I read that both of these also have contraindications. (...is this a matter of \"pick your poison?\")

Personally, I think I may have researched this until I have exhausted my resources. I think I may have to pick one (a dentist, and a type of shot, etc.) and then just take \"the plunge\" like aahavaa did.

Thanks everyone, for your input!
gr8ful*

...well, I still think I will stay away from the epi shots.

I called Dr Runar Johnson's office in the state of Washington and spoke with his office personnel. I cannot be sure if I am remembering correctly, but I believe the voice on the phone told me that he only uses non-vasoconstrictors and they work just fine for him and patient. She said the dentist simply injects a little more non-vasoconstrictor every fifteen minutes or so.

Dr. Johnson is also said to be an expert at detecting and cleaning cavitations (NICO). I plan to send him my x-rays for a second opinion (as to whether I have cavitations). Apparently, old cavitations can look just like healthy tissue on an x-ray so a dentist needs special training to see the lesions.

bolam56, you mentioned that NICO must be rare...well, what if it is not all that rare? What if this is, in part, why there is so much sickness among Americans(and persons in other countries where vasoconstrictors are used)?

I heard an online radio show of an interview with a dentist named Dr. Huggins. He contends that pockets of puss, diptheria, bacteria, heavy metals, etc. build up in the cavitation and compromise the immune system.

I don't know. We can hear and read so many things these days with Internet. I wish I had time to dig into the scientific (research) literature. Dr. Huggins said in his interview that he has done that and can (prove?) document his statements.

In my quest to find a non-threatening pain injection, a particular dental assistant suggested that I ask for Carbocaine 3%. She emphasized asking for \"3%.\" She also said be sure it has no preservatives. Apparently, a patient can ask for an injection with no preservative in it. The dentist has to order it though, so dental work has to wait until the product gets there.

I also called www.iaomt.org. The person speaking to me said that Septocaine is a preferred injection because it contains no carcenagens. (Sorry for the mispellings:blush: ) However, when I googled both Carbocaine 3% and Septocaine, I read that both of these also have contraindications. (...is this a matter of \"pick your poison?\")

Personally, I think I may have researched this until I have exhausted my resources. I think I may have to pick one (a dentist, and a type of shot, etc.) and then just take \"the plunge\" like aahavaa did.

Thanks everyone, for your input!
gr8ful*