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TOPIC: How to restore gut flora

Re:How to restore gut flora 8 years 11 months ago #31

  • idkwia
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Maff - thanks for the response. The doctor you mentioned in Scotland who performed an HPI is Dr MacConnachie at the Gartnavel Hospital, I wrote to him but he said he wouldn't help.
Thanks also for the link to the doc in the US, I had seen it before. From memory I think there is a doctor doing HPI at the Duluth Center or something similarly named.
I am thinking about taking the anitbiotics suggested by Prof Borody, in fact they have already been sent to me. They are Vancomycin and Rifaxamin. I am a little reticent because I am concerened about antibiotics destroying the good gut flora and worried about this making me worse. The problem is I can't seem to find out and concrete advice on this and there also seems to be differering information on whether the gut flora can reestablish itself afterwards. Taking probiotics orally to replenish gut flora seems reasonable but there is debate as to whether it actually takes permanent residence in the gut.
You wanted Borody's Home Infusion Protocol which I am happy to send you but when I tried to upload it here I got a message saying that it was too large to be uploaded here.
You mentioned that you have SIBO. I thought you might be interested in seeing the 'testimonial' on how one guy cured himself. Interestingly he says to avoid taking probiotics as they only compund the problem which if you think about it makes sense. Damn I can't upload that either, sorry. I wonder why I am unable to upload these as they are only 5 or 6 pages long?
Thanks for the info on LDN. I don't know why I have been holding off taking it really. Where are you going to get yours from.
Thanks also for the info on Damien Downing. Do you believe he is good at strange gut disorders?
You asked how my illness started. Well, my friend has a house in Oxford and I stayed there overnight on 3 separate occasions. On each occasion I awoke at 4am feeling very nauseous and needing to open my bowels and remained unwell for about 4 hours. I was the only one out of several people who got ill. Each time I made a complete recovery. I had been completely healthy otherwise. Then about a week after the last stay, I was at home and fully recovered and just getting ready for bed when suddenly without warning I became very nauseous and needed to open my bowels, again this attack lasted for 4 hours. In the ensuing weeks I got more attacks and each time it took me longer to get better until I was just unwell with nausea and stomach discomfort all the time, the only thing that changes is the severity. I have been like this now for over 2 years, I never feel normal, always unwell. I am not constipated nor do I have diarrhoea and hence I do not have IBS. I do not have any other symptoms. So that is my story, if you have nay ideas as what the problem is or who might be able to help I am all ears. I should say that I have seen 11 gastroenterologists and had numerous tests and nothing has been found. Have been on several elimination diets but can find no food trigger although as I say I am unwell all the time.
Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread. I think that faecal transplantation is certainly worth a try to repopulate the gut flora. For a very interesiting forum on people who have done this at home see the following link although I warn you that this is a very long thread in 5 parts:http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=38&m=1612467

Good luck with the site upgrade. Although I have to say that I find it the most easy to navigate site out there and such a refreshing change not to have pop up adverts all over the place.

Post edited by: idkwia, at: 2010/10/27 16:09

Post edited by: idkwia, at: 2010/10/27 16:11

Post edited by: idkwia, at: 2010/10/27 16:46<br /><br />Post edited by: idkwia, at: 2010/10/27 16:50
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Re:How to restore gut flora 8 years 11 months ago #32

  • Maff
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Thanks for the name! When I was researching this I got the impression from his CV and reports of him only using the procedure in C.diff patients that he would be unlikely to help out those of us with \"unexplained\" problems. The Duluth Center does ring a bell, I'll check that out when I get a minute.

I share your apprehension about the antibiotics. I would be very reluctant to take them unless I knew my gut would be repopulated with a healthy balance of microflora afterwards. The concensus on probiotics seems to be that you must keep taking them for them to be any use as they don't permanently colonise. The reason being that the immune system doesn't recognise them as \"self\". For this reason I see HPI as the only way to go as the bacteria provided are all natural residents of the human gut and may have been primed in some way by the donor's immune system. Thanks for the link to the healingwell.com thread I will definitely have a read through that. Sorry you were unable to upload the files - there is a filesize limit but I could actually raise that significantly with the hosting the site now has so I'll add that to the to do list! Please email me the documents at support at ei-resource.org. Much appreciated!

The SIBO thing does make sense and the standard treatment is simply antibiotics. However, I worry that without the addition of some kind of probiotic therapy the problem will simply recur. Thankfully research in this area is growing rapidly so hopefully we'll have some concrete answers in the not too distant future. Obviously it is a very complex subject however.

Just send LDN Research Trust an email and they will send you a list of doctors who will do phone consults and prescribe LDN. Most are expensive but I was given one source where an initial consulation was only £30 and LDN itself is only £15 per month from a compounding pharmacy in Glasgow. Let me know how you get on if you go for it. I am trying IV phospholipid exchange therapy with Dr. Downing first. Only doing one thing at once so there are no problems distinguishing which treatment is having which effect!

Damien Downing isn't a gut specialist as such but obviously he looks at this in the grander scheme of things. During my nutritional medicine degree course we had a Belgian doctor called Georges Mouton give lectures on the gut and liver from a functional medicine perspective. I was highly impressed by the depth of his knowledge. I may see him myself at some point. He has a clinic in London. I have been told his fees are quite pricey and he likes to do lots of expensive investigations...but tests are always expensive and I would argue you need them if you are going to get any clear answers.

It definately sounds like there was some environmental trigger for your illness given the initial symptoms occurred only during stays at your friend's house. Possibilites might be mold, gas/carbon monoxide, or high levels of VOCs from building materials, furnishings, chemical products etc. It seems that in susceptible people such acute exposures can be a tipping point leading to dysfunction in various body systems. Immune, nervous and endocrine dysfunction can of course all lead to gut dysfunction by various mechanisms.

Great to hear you find the site easy to use. I just think it is a bit cluttered so plan to use drop down menues at the top of the page rather than the huge list currently in the left column of the page. I will also be installing social networking software that should tie all the interactive features of the site together and make it easier to share information with each other. You'll be happy to hear I will never use popup ads as they are far too intrusive and irritating!
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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Re:How to restore gut flora 8 years 11 months ago #33

  • Sammy
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Hi Maff been a while, guys I will phone Borody and get a current price for the HPI and post it back on this thread.

They will make you take the antibiotics for 1 to 2 weeks prior to the HPI's as Borody indicated to me when I saw him \"we need to get the populations down before the HPI\"

My thoughts are - Kill much of the \"bad guys\" then repopulate with the \"good guys\"

Almost a weed seed and feed approach, well in a sense.


I must add, Maff has more knowledge then most of the Doctors that i have seen. You will make a superb therapist in the future mate.<br /><br />Post edited by: Sammy, at: 2010/10/30 20:20

Sorry guys been a while.. HPI are now closer to $3000, however they would not give me an exact amount. Case by case basis was implied.
Last Edit: 8 years 9 months ago by Sammy.
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Re:How to restore gut flora 8 years 11 months ago #34

  • idkwia
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Maff - as requested I have sent you the Home Infusion Protocol as well as a testimonial from a guy who cured his SIBO to the email address you suggested.
Also in regard to SIBO you may be familiar with the work done by Dr M Pimentel in the US. he uses rifaxamin to treat this. He also suggests methods to encourage the cleansing wave in the gut that normally cleans the small intestine of bacteria. If his original protocol doens't work he follows it with other ideas incuding an elemental diet with Vivonex inorder to starve the overgrowing bacteria.

Thanks for suggesting that I may have suffered some form of envirnomental poisoning at my friend's house. You have kindly suggested 3 doctor's who might help me but given that my illness might have an environmental origin which doctor whould you suggest please?

Good luck with the site changes. I must say that I actually like the list down the side because it is permanently visible and I often click on lots of things that I would not have found if they were sort of 'hidden' in a drop down list. Either way, it is your site so good luck.
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Re:How to restore gut flora 8 years 11 months ago #35

  • tatina
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Hi idkwia,

I would avoid Dirk Budka. He is not a doctor, and although he claims to have a number of other titles, he does not belong to any practitioner governing body or register. I've had friends who have had some negative experiences with him. Anyone can set up a website that sounds great, but on further research, his are very self-proclaimed.<br /><br />Post edited by: tatina, at: 2010/10/31 18:37
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Re:How to restore gut flora 8 years 11 months ago #36

  • Maff
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Sammy - Good to see you back on the forums. Thanks for contacting Borody for us, very much appreciated! I really do see this as a very key piece of the puzzle for me. I may have to negotiate on the antimicrobials - I can only tolerate non-absorbed ones (my liver can't hack systemic) and antifungals are essential along with antibiotics. Agree with your take on how it all works. Many thanks for your kind comment about my level of knowledge mate! I am having to put becoming a nutritional therapist on hold for now as my health is just not good enough for that kind of work. Maybe if I get on top of things. For now I am focusing on the website in terms of work. Look forward to hearing the latest info from Borody!

idkwia - Thanks for the reading material you emailed me - very interesting stuff indeed! Good to see there is a comprehensive screening of the donor for the HPI but I think people may struggle to get that done if they want to do home infusions. Yes, Dr. Pimentel seems to be one of the pioneers in this field. There are one or two of his articles here on this site. The measures to encourage the 'cleansing wave' sound interesting. I'll look into that further. My personal feeling would be to go with Dr. George Mouton as he has an in-depth knowledge of gut ecology and it's relationship with detoxification pathways and also how this system ties in with environmental factors. I've been looking at software and designs for the site upgrade today and I think you will be impressed with the finished product - lots of new features to really build a thriving community as well as being an information site ;)

Tatina - Many thanks for the input on Dirk Budka. Good to hear the experiences of people who have actually had contact. He did seem very professional when he lectured for us. I admit to disagreeing with some of the things he proposed though.
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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