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TOPIC: Candida - did you ever try bacteriotherapy?

Candida - did you ever try bacteriotherapy? 6 years 7 months ago #1

Hi Matthew / Maff,

I have just joined this forum and read your post on your nightmare with Candida. I think I am in exactly the same position as you were at least (I hope things are better since then as that article was a few years ago?) Born by caesarian, not breast fed at all, multiple antibiotics as a baby for ear infections, almost certainly riddled with mercury from birth from my mother's mouth being full of amalgam, crowns and root canalled filled teeth, undiagnosed pernicious anaemia in mother so nutritionally deficient during pregnancy no doubt etc etc.

I wondered if you have found any significant way forward? Did you ever try bacteriotherapy out of interest? I am really considering it now, but a further complication is that I am also a coeliac and I am a) not sure if a gluten eating donor is a sensible idea, and b) not sure if a subsequent gluten free diet will just wreck the normal bacterial balance again thereafter. Plus I also had an amoeba infection when living in Asia 8 years ago, and I wonder if that is still kicking around - joy!

I would be really really interested to hear if you ever tried this in the end and how you found it, and also where you did it. I am also seeing Dr Myhill, who I think is excellent and about as good as they come, but I still wonder if faecal therapy is going to be the only thing that restores what is missing in me.

Look forward to your response - many thanks and best wishes, Carolyn

p.s. - this is my first attempt at a bit of research: www.gutintelligence.com/survey Note how many courses of antibiotics all these poor people have taken..
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Candida - did you ever try bacteriotherapy? 6 years 7 months ago #2

  • Maff
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Hi Carolyn,

Good to have you with us on the forums but very sorry to read you're also suffering so badly with Candida-related illness.

Your medical history sounds uncannily similar to mine and certainly all the things you list are considered to be predisposing factors for an intestinal overgrowth of yeast (and the far-reaching systemic consequences) by those medical professionals who are open-minded and clued up on this issue.

In answer to your question, yes I did try bacteriotherapy back in the summer of 2011. I prepared well, following the diet recommended by Prof. Borody of the CDD in Sydney, Australia, taking various antifungals (as well as the antibiotic rifaximin for SIBO) and screening both myself and my donor with the Metametrix Gut Ecology Profile. My donor showed a much healthily balance of gut flora than I...so I went ahead. We did 10 days straight of enemas and stuffing donor stool into gelatin capsules (20 large size per day) which I would swallow. I thought it would be the big step forward I had been looking for but unfortunately it had no discernible effect. Others site members have had much more positive results in similar circumstances however so don't let just my experience deter you. You can read a day to day account of my bacteriotherapy and those of many others in our Home Fecal Tranplants group (I will send you an invite right now).

With regard to your coeliac complication. I would personally not use a donor who was not on a strict gluten-free diet if I were you. Obviously the whole aim of bacteriotherapy is ultimately to heal the gut and introducing even traces of gluten when you have coeliac disease would be hugely counter-productive imho.

Dr. Myhill is indeed and excellent doctor, both in her wealth of knowledge and her genuine desire to put her patients well-being above anything else.

If you have any specific questions about the bacteriotherapy process then it would be best to post in the Home Fecal Transplants group as there are lots of knowledgeable members there who will most likely be able to help out. Of course you can simply reply here and I will do my best to help!

I am currently considering another therapy in an attempt to rebalance my gut ecology - helminthic therapy. I'll send you an invite to our group for that too. There are links to articles about it there.

Great bit of research - I haven't visited that site before. I will spend some time reading when I have a minute!

Hope I've helped somewhat and very best wishes,

Maff
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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Candida - did you ever try bacteriotherapy? 6 years 7 months ago #3

Hi Maff - thank you so much for your reply and sorry to hear that the bacteriotherapy didn't have the results you wanted for yourself, although good to hear you have the next plan of attack. Yes, the gluten-free issue bothers me re bacteriotherapy, although from what one clinic says the "food" from the host doesn't get inserted and it is literally only the bacteria, although this is difficult to fathom entirely.

I have wondered about helminthic therapy myself as well I must admit - it sounds like either options are ultimately intended to "re-set" the immune system. It would be so interesting to do a trial of people undergoing helminthic therapy and test with the Metametrix microecology profile before and perhaps a few months afterwards to see if somehow this also re-sets the bacterial balance in some way, irrespective of probiotics.

Thanks so much for your response and I shall indeed join the other groups with great interest.

Best wishes, Carolyn
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Candida - did you ever try bacteriotherapy? 6 years 6 months ago #4

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You're welcome Carolyn, we have to stick together and share information and experiences in order to make any headway with these things!

Thank you, I really did have high hopes for the bacteriotherapy and did all I could to make sure it was done properly but in the end there could be any number of reasons why it didn't help me. Our gut contains a hugely complex ecosystem after all and altering it for the better is never going to be a simple task.

I agree it seems hard to fathom what the clinic you mention told you re: gluten. If a donor eats a diet containing gluten then I would say there is bound to be some gluten residue in their stool. I can only assume they employ some kind of filtration of the donor stool so you literally are just getting the microbial content.

Yes, the ultimate goal of both bacteriotherapy and helminthic therapy is to restore homeostasis (balance) to the immune system - even more so with helminthic therapy as I understand it. Like you say it would be interesting to do a trial and run Metametrix Ecology Profile's before and after. I'd also be interested to see if/how a range of immune markers are affected also. If only research funding was going into things like this! At least there is a ground swell of interest now in the media and medical community :)

Take care and good luck with whichever route you take.
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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Candida - did you ever try bacteriotherapy? 5 years 7 months ago #5

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Hi there,
really sorry to hear about your lack of success with the bacteriotherapy Maff. I was reading a pretty good website on faecal transplants and one of the things it basically says is 'it doesn't matter if your condition has been diagnosed or not, but if you respond well to probiotics, then there is every reason to suggest you will respond well to a faecal transplant'. I just wondered if you did (do) respond very well to taking probiotics?

For me personally, I definitely have candida, and probably a myriad of other bad bacteria/parasites. I have tried many things and some I notice a difference with short term. However, when it comes to probiotics, they are literally life changing/saving for me. They make a huge difference to everything, IBS, sleep, sex drive, immune system, general happiness etc...However like everything else, the positive effect only seems to do last for the rest of the day.

So just curios to know if your reaction to probios was the same as mine.

Thanks a lot
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Candida - did you ever try bacteriotherapy? 5 years 7 months ago #6

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Hi whywhy,

My response to anti-fungals and probiotics is complicated unfortunately. My response is a worsening of my existing symptoms to the point where I can no longer tolerate the treatment. The time this takes has become shorter and shorter the more I have tried!

I take this as a positive reaction however as it is likely due to Candida/yeast being killed off and it is simply that I cannot tolerate the extra toxins in my system. I therefore thought bacteriotherapy was a logical next step but as I have documented it had no effect either way despite my best efforts at preparation and execution!

My next step is likely to be helminthic therapy - the use of hookworms to stimulate gut immunity and stabilize gut flora...
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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