Picking the best donor for fecal transplant
Hi Im George from Sacramento CA. im a yeast overgrowth in the intestine sufferer brought on by antibiotics, diagnosed with CFS, IBS, FM, I always had a feeling that taking probiotics was too simple to heal bad cases of candida but reading more and more new articles like these
does give me reason to wonder if a fecal transplant (FT) or Human Probiotic Infusion (HPI) will help my situation, I think it can, from other studies store bought probitics may not have the ability to adhere to the gut linning and also theres probably only 150 different strains being made as compared to 10,000 plus in the human gut, but the most facinating research is on the immume triggering possabilties of human probiotics researchers are getting clues of, this makes me want to try some kind of HPI whether doctor assisted or not , thats were picking a donor becomes importaint, So im have a short list of criteria, someone close to me geographicaly and emotionally, one of those "never sick a day in my life" people, possibly related, preferablly middle aged (bigger collection of bacteria built up) and willing to go the distance with me, than I will have them take a CDSA x2 with parasites, from Genovia labs, also a blood scan for all the blood offenders. thats about 500 bucks so I hope he/she passes, than probably do the enteric cap method with enema for 10 or 20 sessions or so and evaluate, unless I find a GI doc willing to help here an california but thats a long shot as law rules most of the health care here, first law than money than health or law health than money in more ethical doctors. have some more to add but too tired so will post later.
I remember you writing about the importance of getting the anaerobic bacteria in there. But can't find where. Anyways, do you have any sources for how long they can survive in air? It has gone several hours from preparation of HPI mix, until HPI via NG tube with me...
Think you confused Redo with the American there. Fleets soda is just a laxative used for bowel washout as I understand it? Any other laxative would do the same thing.
Paul Schleinitz, MD
Dr Schleinitz has done 11 fecal transplants. The hospitals where he has privilages have protocals and procedures in place for fecal transplants
posted by Rob on scienceblogs
I don't have any studies to hand right now (so much else to do running this site right now, sorry) but on the issue of being able to meaningfully alter the composition of adult gut microflora I think researchers and physicians who have said it is difficult have been talking from the perpective of trying to alter it with interventions such as dietary changes and probiotic and prebiotic supplements. From the studies I have read I think half say it is possible while the other say not...with those methods I mentioned. Now with HPI we have an infinitely greater chance of making a lasting impact due to much greater quantity AND quality of microbes being introduced. Also if you take anbitotics/antifungals/antiparasitics and do bowel washout before starting HPI then you are starting from as blank a slate as is possible so whatever you intriduce with the HPI procedures is likely to establish itself imho.
How much bacteria is live in stool? Plenty given the results with all the C.diff patients! Also, if if were a big issue the vast majority of stool testing would not work because it relies on culturing microbes...which means there have to be plenty that are alive to start the culture!
As Redo mentioned, the C.diff studies have shown it doesn't need to be a relative you use as a donor for treatment to be effective and Prof. Borody routinely uses non-relatives. A lot of research shows that geographic location and diet/lifestyle influences microflora composition however, so just something to keep in mind.
Agree with you on the capsules in terms of filling them with the raw faecal matter George. Makes a lot of sense. I too plan to do the capsules and enemas simultaneously.
George, just a quick point on your testing. Had you considered the Metametrix GI Effects Profile? I am using this one as it is the only one to use PCR DNA detection of microbes rather than the culture method. Not only is this likely more sensitive and thus accurate but it also means anaerobic microbes like bacteroides can be detected. Believe it or not these make up 90%+ of the entire gut microflora so most tests are only testing 10% tops!
Redo - Your link worked for me and I thought it was interesting at the end as it hinted that it might not just be the microbes in the donor stool that are producing therapeutic benefit. Obviously stool contains all sorts of other things such as immune chemicals e.g. lactoferrin. Interesting.
I agree it's best to not thin out anything which will go in capsules.
Seventy percent being dead bacteria sounds like much. I'd rather say 30% is dead bacteria. But I haven't read any sources for any of this.
I am not quite sure what you mean by this:
"also I wonder if it would help to drink a fleets phospho soda so the donor has a loose stool one time to get it past the bile quickly?"
If you get someone to take a laxative, and then the stool will get past your bile more quickly?
Thanks for the links. I hadn't read all of those.
I might be way off, but here's my subjective thoughts.
Reading about gut flora I see often that it is described as something which is somewhat specific to different persons ("The complex microﬂora ofthe adult is difﬁcult to change in the long term." bit.ly/… ). So I am guessing you'll have a bigger chance of making the new "gut flora" stay, and establish itself, if you're choosing a close relative.
There are two aspects of this. One is the antibiotic effects the HPI has immediately, and the other is making the new flora become your more or less permanent flora.
For the first, it wouldn't matter, but for the second, I'd go for a close relative.
But, that said, it cures c. diff. even if it's done with the aid of a non-blood relative.
And, reading this: www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/EASD/… suggests that gut flora may be the cause of insulin resistance (the major symptom of type 2 diabetes), so I wound't choose a diabetic (although the gut-diabetes connection is avant-garde science, and not established).
".. do the enteric cap method with enema " Are you planning to do both at the same time?
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