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TOPIC: sulphur detox pathway problems

sulphur detox pathway problems 12 years 3 weeks ago #1

  • konnor
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Hey Maff,

Hope you are well, or as well as can be all things considered!

I know you've posted information on liver support but wasn't sure whether you addressed the issue of sulphur specifically.

I suspect I have a problem with sulphur metabolism. In particular I'm intolerant to garlic, onions, eggs and I believe milk thistle after a nasty reaction from it, which I've since learned is high in sulphur. Raw sauerkraut also made me very loopy and I'm still not confident on other high sulphur veg such as brocolli and cauliflower.

What might be the link between candida and sulphur problems? As I understand it sulphur is a powerful detoxifier and as such might gut dysbiosis 'block' the detoxification pathway?

Are there any supplements you would recommend specifically for this problem? Pretty much all Candida safe veg is apparently high in sulphur! I know molybdenum might be helpful both for sulphur and Candida. Hoping there might be something else I can try!

Cheers dude
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Re:sulphur detox pathway problems 12 years 2 weeks ago #2

  • Maff
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Hey,

Sorry for the slow reply, I'm not too well at the moment unfortunately. I have had to listen to my body and have decided to take a break before pursuing clinical training as a Nutritional Therapist. I am grateful my health held up long enough for me to graduate from my degree so it wasn't all a waste of time! I am also quite relieved and can now focus my energy here on EIR again :)

From what you have said it does sound very much like looking into sulphur metabolism may be worth your time.

I can think of two ways in which Candida and sulphur metabolism are linked, 1. Candida overgrowth depletes sulphur directly because many of its toxins are detoxified through the sulphation pathway, 2. it depletes nutrients (such as molydenum) that are required by the enzyme sulphite oxidase which converts sulphites into sulphates. Sulphate is the form of sulphur used in detoxification so if you have indadequate sulphite oxidase activity you get a build up of sulphites (which can cause sensitivity reactions) and a deficiency of sulphate which impacts your ability to detoxify harmful chemicals.

To bypass the sulphite pathway from food/supplements epsom salts are a good way of supplying ready made sulphate. I have regular epsom salt baths (1-2 small cups per bath) and research has shown the sulphate is well absorbed through the skin.
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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Re:sulphur detox pathway problems 12 years 2 weeks ago #3

  • konnor
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Thanks Dude,

Sorry to hear you aren't feeling too well. Do you think it's more a temporary blip or is the clinical training a little too demanding? As you say you've done amazing well to get a degree and maintain a business thus far.

Thanks for the info on sulphur. It's hard to tell whether it's an avenue that should be persued or more a case of my mind trying to hook onto possible causes or significant contributory factors. Just seems odd that my sensitivities all rank pretty high for sulphur, although I do get different reactions. For example sauerkraut will give make me woozy and I actually crave the sourness. Other things like onions and cauliflowers will either putrify and potentially contribute towards constipation but without any change in non gut symptoms.

I've certainly got allot of gut inflammation to work on. Kind of bumbling around a little bit, usually getting the opposite reaction to most recommendations! For example I struggle with most additional fibers such as flaxseed and psyllium and anything mucilaginous such as slippery elm. It's as if I need minimal roughage to get any absorbtion. Also have a fair amount of undigested food in my stools, not really helped by enzymes, HCL or bile.

Digestive bitters give me an interesting reaction. My stools become much harder and slower to pass and the only explanation for this was that it could be softening hardened bile in the liver which when moving can actually block bile flow. Gunna run with it a bit and see if the symptoms improve as apparently if the stagnation starts to clear, bile and bowel movements will improve. All fun and games!

Do you have any thoughts/appointments/tests etc lined up to help improve your own health?

How has the tai chi been going?
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Re:sulphur detox pathway problems 12 years 2 weeks ago #4

  • Maff
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No problem mate!

I have bee getting worse for a while now unfortunately...just needed the time to do something about it! To be honest though unless I have a miraculous recovery to 90-100% health I wouldn't be able to cope with the clinical training or a career as a Nutritional Therapist. I think running a website and perhaps writing a book or two at some point is probably a better way to go for me...no pressure of appointments or deadlines or a huge workload. I need things I can do at my own pace but keep paying ;)

I have today taken the first step in seeking treatment for myself. I have made an appointment to see Dr. Damien Downing in York next month and will start IV phospholipid exchange with him. That will hopefully get my liver into a much healthier state (research shows phosphatidylcholine is very effective in liver disease) and help my body to detox at the cellular level which should all put me in a better state of health generally...we will see! Also on the table are faecal transplant, which would require a trip to Sydney, Australia, and low dose naltrexone (LDN) which reportedly boosts endorphins which help with mood sleep and pain and have the important knock-on effect of boosting innate immunity. This immune modulating effect in theory should restore balance between the Th1 and Th2 arms of the immune system that are out of whack in ME/CFS and thus help me fight off chronic infections. When I mentioned LDN on the EIR Facebook page many parents of autistic children commented that it had helped with both sleep and gut issues...so that is very encouraging!

I have a lot of trouble with fibre as well. There's no doubt it can be a problem when there is inflammation in the gut. IBS has now been shown to involve low-level chronic inflammation and sufferers have long been advised to moderte their intake of insoluble fibre as it irritates the gut lining even more. Undigested food in the stool can often be a result of things passing through too quickly - a fast \"transit time\". Do you find there is less undigested food in the stool when you are on digestive bitters and things slow down in that department?

Oh, I am doing qi gong not t'ai chi, although they are similar. It's great, you should try it. It only took me a week to learn by heart and now only takes 15 minutes a day and gives me a real boost in respect of both mind and body. I usually do it around mid-afternoon when I have a dip in mood and energy due to my cortisol levels taking a dive (as ASI results have shown). Qi gong really picks me up again so I can get on with things.
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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Re:sulphur detox pathway problems 10 years 2 months ago #5

  • Milo
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I think I am sensitive to sulphites. I feel that I react to foods high in sulphur as well. I want to detox from sulphites. I believe that I have Candida.

Do you recommend that I soak in Epsom Salts even if I'm sensitive to sulphites?
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Re:sulphur detox pathway problems 10 years 2 months ago #6

  • Maff
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Hi Milo,

Just off the top of my head I would say it is probably best for you to avoid epsom salts as the sulphate in epsom salts may fuel your problems. The body primarily deals with sulphites by converting them to sulphate via the enzyme sulphite oxidase. If you have problems converting sulphites to sulphate I would personally trial supplements of sublingual vitamin B12 and molybdenum as these are required by the sulphite oxidase enzyme. With an adequate supply of these nutrients, in theory, sulphite oxidase should convert sulphites to sulphates more efficienctly and reduce sensitivity to sulphites in food etc.

Glutathione and Taurine are both upstream of sulphate in the transulphuration biochemical pathway that starts with the methylation cycle...and these are arguably more important for people with MCS...and detoxification of petrochemicals in general. Please search this site and the web for the work of Dr. Amy Yasko, PhD. She knows more than anybody about this stuff. She focuses on autism but her explanations of the biochemistry are excellent and apply to MCS and your other problems equally as much.

I should point out that taking reduced glutathione supplements is not a very effective way of raising glutathione levels in the body. Sources of cysteine the body can use are most effective...these include undenatured whey and N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC) supplements. Liposomal glutathione (better absorbed form of glutathione) is also reported to be a good option.

You mentioned in a message to me (and I hope you don't mind me replying here) that you felt oestrogen dominance was an issue also. Oestrogen is detoxified and removed from the body by both the sulphation and glucuronidation detoxification pathways. Optimising sulphite oxidase activity and taking steps to improve cysteine/glutathione stores should supply sufficient sulphate. Might be worth looking into ways to improve glucuronidation as an alternative route of elimination to rebalance oestrogen levels. this blog post might be of help: http://www.ei-resource.org/myblog/Foods-and-Supplements-to-Balance-Phase-1-and-Phase-2-Liver-Detoxification.html

I hope this gives you some useful information...
If you are going through hell, keep going - Winston Churchill
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